This was an answer to a large multiple news group message.  Still  pertinent


11-25-07

I used to say I was on the conservative side, meaning I supported more or their way of thinking than say Hillary, but I must say the 'conservative' congress turned out to be so much me me me I can’t believe there wasn’t a country wide revolt.  The prescription program for the elderly I absolutely cannot believe.  Not only does it restrict who you can buy the drugs from but it fines you if you don’t sign up.  I can’t believe it is constitutional and I would think anyone fighting it would win.   Where is that GD ACLU?  This is something they should be fighting now whether on not there can be a nativity scene on the court house lawn somewhere.  Has this whole country gone bonkers?   But you know, I don’t hear anything from the liberals on this subject either.   Apparently they are on the pharmaceutical payroll too, which comes as no big surprise.

I agree, it seems that every bit of legislation was aimed at benefitting big business from the bankruptcy bill, the “can’t sue the pharmaceuticals” bill, there is a bill pending for “can’t sue the food manufactures” [HR 554] before we find out that the chemicals they have been putting in the food makes us hungry (search WEB for ‘MSG’).  

While it also appeared the Dems were against all the crap I personally say, “actions are louder than words.”  I suspect that was just politics and they really won’t do much of anything to correct any of that shit.  Just wait and see.   That is the problem with politics, people think they need to be on one side or the other when I personally believe that whether by design or it just naturally evolved, they do it that way on purpose.  You hate George Bush or Bill Clinton so much you fail to notice that ‘your’ party isn’t any better. They just change some words around and go through the motions but all the while keep you pissed at the other guy so you don’t watch what “THEY” are doing.   Sure sure, they each have their little agendas, liberals want free medical (including all of Mexico, Costa Rica, Nicaragua and Panama) and the republicans don’t, the republicans want tax breaks (mostly for all their high rolling buddies) but the Dems don’t.   It is all bull shit. 

I’ll tell you what I do that is conservative, I keep a weapon and I keep some ammunition.   I believe it may come to the day I/we need them and will be against the ass-holes we were just talking about.  I can’t imagine what those ass holes would do if they had nothing to worry about.

Venezuela’s Chavze is nothing more than a politician too.   If you think his offer to send heating oil to the elderly was out of the goodness of his heart, you are sadly mistaken.   He is doing exactly the same thing the democrats are doing and he is doing it for political gain.   The money means nothing to him, a drop in the bucket.  Kinda like the legislature in Alaska.   They got the oil money now so they don’t have to make any hard decisions, they just have to decide how they can divi up what they got & how they can get their mits on the Permanent Fund.   Everyone of them wants to piss that away in their district so they will look like good guys, and they aren’t..   How many times has your buddy Fran asked for an income tax???   It isn’t like she has enough to spend now.  I’m guessing she is still in the legislature, I know people in Juneau thought she did no wrong.   What a joke, so typical.  

Well, we can agree on most of the rest, not that it will do any good.   Bitch in one hand and crap in the other and see which one gets full first for all the good it will do. Some people just don't get it.   Let me give it a shot here.
1. One ICBM contains a number of MERV's, that is what the "M" is for, 'multiple.'   Once you open up the Nuke can of worms I don't think anyone will be safe.

3,4 & 5  Why is it nobody can remember 2001?  Back than, 90% of the world thought Saddam was a very bad person who was thought to have WMD which he in fact he did at one time or was that Channel.

#5 he gassed the Kurds with?  He had 10 years to hide all his shit or get rid of it.  Saddam was an ass hole but he wasn't an idiot.

6 won't tell us what chicken shit country he is from.  the whole world sits on their ass while the US and a few of its allies try to make the world a safe place & all they do is criticize.

7 The ‘maureens’[ we spell it ‘marines’ in the US] were following orders.  There was not enough troops sent in to ‘police’ Bagdad as well as fight the war.   It is obviously a mistake now.  We could have used some help from 6 & 7 but they were too busy spending the cash they stole in the “food for peace” program.

8 Is just a left winger that also wants to bitch.  Ignores facts when they are not in his favor.

11 It wasn’t for the US and some of its allies you wouldn’t be able to make such stupid suggestions on a free forum such as this.  What did your chicken shit country do to help the world?

 13 From: The Final Crusade   Part of the object was to get rid of Saddam as a political figure and as a tyrant that needed to be brought to justice.  For those that think he was Christ reincarnated, he wasn’t.   Saddam's heirs?  Well his two brothers for sure.  They weren’t very nice people either, I don’t suppose anybody remembers that. It is not about the OIL.   Jezus H Crimenatly.  It is not about the oil, it never was.  What little has been pumped out since the war has been sold by the Iraq’s to help their government, I hope.   I don’t see us going to war with Iran, it just ain’t happening.   Wait until they give Al Qaeda a nuke that they smuggle into the US and blow up DC.  Than you will be able to see IRAN from the moon at night.  There will be one hell of a shortage of virgins in heaven or where ever muslems go when their incinerated.  They will open the can of worms and than you will see how many warheads are in a ICBM because it will only take a couple to turn that place into glass.

14 addin...@addinall.org.   Another ass hole full of criticism but no answers.

16   I’m beginning to wonder myself just who is making how much on this war.

17   AS I’ve said before, this is not about oil.   Besides, it is deep underground it wouldn’t be irradiate or radioactive either one.





That having been said, how we got to the war has everything to do with why we are there now.   Now how can you possibly say it doesn’t matter.  “Those events of supporting the war and the votes are irrelevant at this point. 50% of the 90% have come out saying they were either duped or they were wrong.”  I know your just grabbing at numbers there for percentages.  Quite a few have said that, but nothing has been proven.  I wonder about like the nuclear material that was supposed to be coming from S Africa.  I wonder if Georgie was just trying to be a hero like his dad or better than his dad, but I don’t know and neither do you.   The WMD’s..   Lets think back, Saddam gassed the Kurds with what, what was that? Channel #5?  No, it was poison gas Jenna, and that is a WMD.   Fact. [alright, that was a little smart-aliky]

 I don’t suppose you remember that team that was running around Iraq trying to find WMD prior to the war.   Do you remember the trouble Saddam gave them, It wasn’t because he was just an ass hole, he was stalling.    They found where equipment had been recently removed and I remember once they were stopped at the front of a base and one of the guys climbed a water tower or something and hollered down there were trucks going out the back gate.   Doesn’t that sound suspicions to you?

Alright, they didn’t find anything.   They did find where he spent millions gathering info on how to refine uranium.  He knew this was coming for 10 years.   Saddam was a tyrant but he wasn’t stupid.

On the mission accomplished thing, yeah I know it looks pretty bad but a: he claims to have had nothing to do with it [and neither you or I know for sure] and if you define the mission of kicking Saddam’s ass, it was accomplished.

Missing Saddam on the tora Bora thing was a disaster.   They gave the Iraqis more credit of character than they clearly have.   They would kill their mother for buck.

I think your right about their being no connection between 9/11 hijackers and Saddam and of course GB used the anger from that to go into Iraq.  That was a shitty deal.   I guess he could have blown up a baby food factory ‘over there’ somewhere and scared whoever was responsible to quit.   Of course that was the second attack on the towers.   Don’t forget the USS Cole, the embassies at Dares Salaam, Tanzania, Nairobi, Kenya, the Marine barracks in Beirut, the Kobar Towers in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia.  Clinton scared the hell out of them with infidelity and blow jobs, I guess Bush could have done that.  

You want to Impeach Bush because he pulled something over on you, because he wanted to be a hero?   Would you have voted to impeach Clinton when he stood before congress and lied.

I too, feel bad about the loss of life in Iraq, more than you know, but what do you do, really?   Yelling and bitching about Bush isn’t the answer.   If he was gone 5 minutes from now it wouldn’t answer a single thing.

“There will be no Jeffersonian Democracy in Iraq.”   Your close enough there I wouldn’t argue with you, but what do you do?
“So Bush sends another 20,000 troops in there?”   Again I can’t disagree with you to much there.  I have said to myself, ‘I hope to shit this works’ because we can’t just leave, the consequence are unimaginable.

“At the same time this “ I’m not exactly sure what your referring to here but as far as I know he hasn’t attacked Iran yet and if an Iranian diplomat was doing something wrong, and we know Iran is the biggest problem over there, than maybe, I don’t know but I’m quite sure you don’t either.

I don’t know that getting out is the right thing to do, I certainly would like to see us out I just don’t know what is going to happen inside Iraq if we left.  Personally, if they just wanted to kill each other I wouldn’t care.  Iran wants in there, they want another Mulla run Shea state.   Would that be OK with you.  Of course, you could write off that bunch that lived in the swamp Saddam tried to drain and the Kurds.  We could do the Carter solution & bring em all to your state.

I don’t have any answers Jenna but I think we should think about this with an open mind and remember everything that has gone on, it all factors in.   What am I doing?   Probably nothing, but I do like to bring up facts others seem to be forgetting.   That is my pathetic contribution.




I’ll tell you where I think your wrong, it isn’t Bush verses everybody else or republicans verses democrats.   That is the way ‘they’ want you to see it.  Than they slip Jeffery Dalmer in and you say ya ya go Jeff.   It isn’t repubs verses dems it is us verses them meaning the voter verses 90% of the elected officials who are in congress for the #1 priority to stay in congress.

Your rebuttal.   Yeah, gas gets old.  But don’t tell me he didn’t [ever] have WMD.   Yeah, that was a shitty thing Bush 1 pulled on the Kurds but they thought the local populace would rise up against Saddam but I think we know now the iraqs have no character and have been so so long they don’t know how to react.  I’m not trying to justify anything here, I’m just trying to see the whole picture.  Boom   boom   boom [my drum]

Yes, it did seem the inspectors and containment were working, but Sad kicked them out.

Prior to the war it seems to me just about everybody said Saddam needed to be dealt with.   When it came to doing something about it all the help evaporated.   I don’t think the pre-war statistics were ever figured.

I agree that uranium deal looks pretty shaky, I wish I knew.   If I had to say I supposed it was BS.

Scott Ritter got $100,000 from Saddam ostensibly to make a movie about the inspections.   Not a very good choice as an “un-biased” witness here.

Both WTC bombings, the USS Cole etc didn’t necessarily have a connection to Saddam but they did have a connection to an incompetent president.   That is a whole board in itself.   Did you know the US had Osama literally in their sights but Clinton wouldn’t give the OK?   And Clinton is absolved of any responsibility for the Cole simply because it was a few months before he left office?   He was the commander in chief ane was totally responsible.   Rat-tat-tat-tat [snare drum]

Clinton stood in front of congress and Television and lied.   Fact!

John Kerry, now there is a man of integrity.  Dumps a 3 million wife for a 10 million one.   We fought the mob by indicting them on tax evasion charges, that will be tuff to do with terrorists.

I agree Bush has screwed this up about as bad as can be done.   I have serious doubts about his integrity and there is no doubt about him being a a phony ass ‘born again Christian’ and has certainly busted his ass to help big business and virtually everybody in congress.   That is how he got everything passed, hd didn’t veto a damn thing.   He bribed congress and they took it, at your expense.


I guess I missed something here.   Now you are complaining Bush isn’t going to war against Iran?  You’re the one complaining about contradictions here.   I thought you were all against the war in Iraq & now you want him to attack Iran?  I guess your saying he needs to protect our troops, right?  He is not the one to vote against the funding for this stuff. There is hardly a national guard troop in the US with half of what they are supposed to have.  Bush isn’t against protecting the troops, that is not what it is all about.  We could discuss but it always degenerates into name calling so there is not much point.   Now Bush doesn’t do much right I agree but he had to back down from the rhetoric on Iran for political reasons, I can see that, why can’t you?   I feel probably like you that Iran is in this up to their diaper but what do you suggest doing about it, War?

Again, Kyle, I don’t think Bush directly meant to send anybody into war half equipped.   I think your missing the point.   I think you are all missing the point.  I think your being led exactly where ‘they’ want you to go.   It is not Bush or Cheney or Gore or Clinton or any individual or party, it is ‘them’ and I can’t precisely tell you who because it isn’t precisely anybody.   War is great for business and absolutely fantastic for certain individuals in the right place.  When the war is costing billions, nobody misses a million here and a million there, a misappropriation here, one there, an over charge here, one there.   You have people keeping these assholes in office for the purpose of keeping your mind off what is really going on.

I don’t know if it is really Bush in charge, I kind of doubt it.  Cheney on the other hand just might be, that would be a good place to run the country from, covertly.

Now I don’t know this for a fact, I can’t cut and past an article from some published report, because the media is tightly controlled.  Their babbling about bringing 7,000 Iraq’s into the US yet 7000 mexicans cross the border every month but that isn’t in the news.   The media controls what they want you to hear and who controls the media?   Big business does,. People with lots of money, and people in the ‘right’ places.  
You can complain all you want but one is like the other.   Pelosi isn’t in office 15 minutes before she is exempting people in her district and trying to get a 757 for a commuter jet for crissake..   I’m not saying there is anything special about her, I think one is bad as the other I’m just making the point that nothing will change, really.   And people will be at each others throats, democrats and republicans and behind closed doors the real politicians (or “them”) probably get together in Washington and laff their asses off at the stupid electorate.



------------ News groups are fun --------------------------

So, you think Bush is the great Satan?
Well, he did win the last election.  Of course there are always some who will argue otherwise.  So why did Bush win?  One reason that explains my ‘feelings’ on the subject is the Republicans found bush under a rock at the deep end of a cess pool but the reason he won is the Democrats had to dig in the muck that was under that same rock to find somebody that would lose to him.   That is one reason, another is the millions of dollars spent on advertising.  Americans (actually, I’m talking about U.S. citizens where-as Americans technically includes anyone living in the ‘Americas’) will vote for the name they hear the most.  The biggest reason or perhaps two reasons is emotion and apathy.  You don’t ‘think’ with emotion, you react.  Depending on what deep-seated emotional problems you have is how you will ‘react’ to what you see and hear.  That my friend, is pretty much the definition of crazy and you better believe the political parties are well aware of what triggers your ‘emotions’ and play them to their advantage.  The word ‘emotions’ comes up a lot in party strategy meetings.  In essence you (me and everyone else) are being played, manipulated, to vote or express your “emotional’ hence; ‘crazy’ opinion the way ‘they’ want you to.   If you can’t sit down and discuss any subject without raising your voice, getting mad (an emotion), your head is swimming or maybe you want to hit or shoot somebody or stomp or scream, than you need to figure out what ‘your’ problem is.  Truth is; when your “in your shit” you probably can’t see anything else.’   Well, think about it when your not; “IYS”.   I don’t care who your for or who you are against but if you are talking politics and you are being emotional about it, you have already lost. 

Than there is apathy.  Very few of us know anything about a candidate than what we have been told and if we only listen to one source (the GOP say) than you are going to have their opinion, right or wrong.   Than of course there is the media.  Can you even name somebody who gets their opinions about a candidate from something other than the media or their party?

Perhaps we should rename the political parties to something that might give you an idea where this is headed.   So should the Democrats now be called Shiite or a Sunnie?  Than we can put bombs in each others neighborhood just to prove we are right..
Right?



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